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toothycatSoooo... we have a new shiny pleasing happy-making wooden floor, which is very nice.
We got it from a company called Barham & Sons, who are not.
They seemed competent when we placed the order. The survey was arranged promptly; the room was measured at 45 square metres, and the appropriate quantity of flooring ordered. Innocently, we asked for a square metre or so extra, to keep in the loft so we could replace planks if they ever got damaged, and this was duly added. The delivery was scheduled, and the fitting a week after that; we were told it'd take two days, and there'd be no problem with us leaving the bigger pieces of furniture in one half of the room while the fitters did the other so long as we didn't require the fitters to actually move any of it as they weren't insured for that. We duly booked the time off work.
The fitter - not part of the company - was somewhat annoyed when he turned up. Apparently we were supposed to remove the old carpet before he came and dispose of it; Barhams didn't tell us, which apparently is quite usual for them, but told him to expect a clear room. He'd been told the fitting should take only one day; indeed, he had other work booked in for the next day. And we had not been supplied with anything to line the walls - Barhams didn't even mention to us that we'd need anything.
He did excellent work, however; repaired the underfloor where it was broken, procured a quantity of beading to go around the edges of the room, and finished within a day, for less overall than originally quoted.
When he was done, half the pile of wood was still in the kitchen. He'd unwrapped some of what was left before realising it wouldn't be needed.
I added up the amounts written on the packaging for the wood that was still packed, which totalled just shy of 10 square metres; then counted up the unpacked but unused planks - the packed wood was 4 planks to a 1.5sq.m. pack, so I could see there was around 5-6sq.m. of that in total. The fitter had also left a large pile of offcuts in the garden for us to dispose of; I later found these to total nearly 3sq.m.
We'd been sold almost twice as much wood as we'd actually needed.
It was a lot of wood to have in the house. So, I duly telephoned Barham & Sons and told them I had around 15 sq. m. of completely unused wood left and could they please take some back so I could use the kitchen again.
"I'm sorry, sir, but I can't help you with that; I need to talk to my manager, and she's not in today. I'll get her to call you back tomorrow."
Tomorrow came, and went; on the next day I telephoned again and got through to the lady in question. There shouldn't be a problem with returning the wood, I was told, but she'd have to approve with her manager, at the Newmarket office. He was off that day, but she'd telephone right away once he got in, and he'd get back to me. Also, she said, the measurement of the room included a 10% allowance for wastage - that's 4.5 sq.m.; and 2sq.m. extra had also been added to our order on our request; so that left around 7.5 sq.m.
Naturally, no-one got back to me.
The next day I called again; the lady was once more on holiday. I found the number for the Newmarket office, and tried that. They had been told nothing about me, I was told, but would look into it. A few hours later, I received an email: the Cambridge office tells us that you have 7.5sq.m. of surplus wood. We have a wastage allowance blah blah and also you asked for extra blah, so that leaves 1sq.m. - if you bring that back, we'll happily refund you for it, or we can pick it up but then you'd have to pay the courier which won't leave you with any cash.
I went and applied a tape measure to all the loose wood and offcuts, then replied with an email in which I referred the honourable gentleman to the quanitites I handily list above. "Ah", his response (in summary) said. "There seems to be some discrepancy with what Cambridge told me. Bring the lot over, we'll measure it and go from there."
So, with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
halaku_remiel's invaluable help, I did just that. The staff at the showroom got a palette, we piled all the wood up on that, and the lady manager totalled up the quantities written on the packs. With the packed amount as a matter of record, and visibly nearly the same volume again of unpacked wood stacked next to it, with offcuts piled on top, I relaxed. Surely we were near agreement!
Naturally, I could not expect them to take back the offcuts or the wood we'd explicitly asked for when we first ordered. I decided I would be content merely with having them not triple-count the wastage. Since I would be unable to transport the longer planks withouthalaku_remiel's help, we stopped unloading when there were two packs left; I explained that I'd keep that as the extra I ordered, unless that meant there would be a problem with measuring the quantities, in which case I'd take the amount in loose planks instead. The lady manager quickly said there'd be no problem, and recorded the amount - 3.6sq.m; this was rather more than I expected to take back, but, since things otherwise seemed to be in hand, I left it at that. A receipt was promptly handed to me, for "6.5sq.m. of wood delivered, 3.6 presented and taken back, and a quantity of loose and scrap wood" and I was told the manager from Newmarket would come down on Monday or Tuesday, measure the lot, then authorise a refund and call me back.
This was Saturday. I already suspected what would happen, but let Monday and Tuesday come and go. Wednesday morning, I telephoned Newmarket. It was the manager's day off, I was told; I should call Thursday.
Thursday morning I actually got through to the manager. He'd heard nothing at all from Cambridge, I was told, but would look into it right away and call me back.
I waited until the afternoon before I telephoned again. "Ah, he's on the phone right now. Actually, he'll be going on holiday tomorrow, so I'll make sure to get him to call you back before the end of the day."
So, the next morning - this morning - I call the office and relate the whole saga from start to finish to the person who answers, without letting them get a word in. "I was planning to call him at 11, sir, I will talk to him then and make sure to resolve this for you. I will call you back after that."
I gave it until end of lunchtime, then telephoned again. "He says he sent you an email yesterday." "I got no email." "I'll get him to telephone."
Around 3pm, I ran out of patience and telephoned the Cambridge showroom. "Ah yes", the lady manager says. "He did talk to me yesterday. There's 6.5 square metres of packed wood here, so after subtracting the wastage allowance I can pay you for 2 square metres of it." "Wastage allowance? What about all the waste wood I brought down to show you the wastage? How does that even start to make sense?" "I'm sorry, sir, but two square metres is all the Newmarket manager authorised me to refund. If you bring back the other wood, I could issue a refund for that as well. If there is a problem, you should speak to the Newmarket manager. He's not available today, though." "I can reach him on the mobile number in his email signature, right?" "He's on holiday today. He'll be back Monday." "Of course he is."
I confess I lost my cool and somewhat rudely hung up without saying goodbye. "Following delivery of close to 19m2 of wood to the Cambridge branch last Saturday", my email to the Newmarket manager began, "and after spending an entire week being passed around between various people and waiting fruitlessly for telephone calls to be returned as promised, it is with some distress that I discover that a refund has only been authorised for a tiny proportion of the wood that is demonstrably surplus." I followed in that vein, detailing once more the totals above and pointing out the wood was right there for anyone to see in the Cambridge showroom, enough of it to do another living room.
I sent the email, but couldn't concentrate on my work. I dug out my legal advisor's number, called them up and explained the situation. "Someone will return your call within the next two hours, sir." I laughed.
An email hit my inbox! It's from the Newmarket manager.
Having inspected the material returned excluding the un-suitable boarding returned (Open & Cut Boards) I totalled an amour of 6.5m2 packed and returned suitable for credit.
4.5m2 of this material is the non-returnable wastage allowance therefore a credit us due in the additional returned 2m2.
As a gesture if you would like to return the further 2m2 you purchased separately I will also credit this back giving a credit of 4m2, at this point I would like to state the returned cut and open boards you returned to store are your properties if you wish to collect please do so by Sunday 13.02.11 or I will arrange disposal of these for you and also as a further gesture there will no restocking charge on either the 2m2 or 4m2 credit.
The lawyer returned the call! I could build a decent case, she explained, under the Consumer and Sale of Goods act, around the fact that I relied on their services to perform the initial survey, and the vast amount of surplus wood is due to their failure to exercise due care and diligence when they did took the measurements. If I wished to pursue it, I should start by retrieving the unwrapped wood and offcuts from the showroom, or at least going there and measuring it all with them so that a written record of the total amount exists. I should then contact my credit card company and tell them I was disputing the charges; and file a formal complaint against Barham.
I feel drained, however. I've had enough; I'm just about ready to wash my hands of the whole affair. Withouthalaku_remiel's help, I am unable to move the wood at all as the planks are too long to fit inside a car; and the thought of asking people to help me lug stuff yet again is untenable. A couple of friends have expressed desire to take the wood to floor their own rooms; if it turns out they were serious, and I have a means of transporting it back from Barham's before Barham's dispose of it, I'm very tempted to give them the finger regarding their token "refund", take the lot back and give it to said friends. If it drags on for much longer I'll probably swear at someone.
Still. Feels good to get that lot off my chest.
TLDR: They suck at measuring, and at communicating, and when they do communicate they lie. I need to trust contractors less, and give them fewer chances, so I retain enough energy to finish what I start.
Would not trade again.
We got it from a company called Barham & Sons, who are not.
They seemed competent when we placed the order. The survey was arranged promptly; the room was measured at 45 square metres, and the appropriate quantity of flooring ordered. Innocently, we asked for a square metre or so extra, to keep in the loft so we could replace planks if they ever got damaged, and this was duly added. The delivery was scheduled, and the fitting a week after that; we were told it'd take two days, and there'd be no problem with us leaving the bigger pieces of furniture in one half of the room while the fitters did the other so long as we didn't require the fitters to actually move any of it as they weren't insured for that. We duly booked the time off work.
The fitter - not part of the company - was somewhat annoyed when he turned up. Apparently we were supposed to remove the old carpet before he came and dispose of it; Barhams didn't tell us, which apparently is quite usual for them, but told him to expect a clear room. He'd been told the fitting should take only one day; indeed, he had other work booked in for the next day. And we had not been supplied with anything to line the walls - Barhams didn't even mention to us that we'd need anything.
He did excellent work, however; repaired the underfloor where it was broken, procured a quantity of beading to go around the edges of the room, and finished within a day, for less overall than originally quoted.
When he was done, half the pile of wood was still in the kitchen. He'd unwrapped some of what was left before realising it wouldn't be needed.
I added up the amounts written on the packaging for the wood that was still packed, which totalled just shy of 10 square metres; then counted up the unpacked but unused planks - the packed wood was 4 planks to a 1.5sq.m. pack, so I could see there was around 5-6sq.m. of that in total. The fitter had also left a large pile of offcuts in the garden for us to dispose of; I later found these to total nearly 3sq.m.
We'd been sold almost twice as much wood as we'd actually needed.
It was a lot of wood to have in the house. So, I duly telephoned Barham & Sons and told them I had around 15 sq. m. of completely unused wood left and could they please take some back so I could use the kitchen again.
"I'm sorry, sir, but I can't help you with that; I need to talk to my manager, and she's not in today. I'll get her to call you back tomorrow."
Tomorrow came, and went; on the next day I telephoned again and got through to the lady in question. There shouldn't be a problem with returning the wood, I was told, but she'd have to approve with her manager, at the Newmarket office. He was off that day, but she'd telephone right away once he got in, and he'd get back to me. Also, she said, the measurement of the room included a 10% allowance for wastage - that's 4.5 sq.m.; and 2sq.m. extra had also been added to our order on our request; so that left around 7.5 sq.m.
Naturally, no-one got back to me.
The next day I called again; the lady was once more on holiday. I found the number for the Newmarket office, and tried that. They had been told nothing about me, I was told, but would look into it. A few hours later, I received an email: the Cambridge office tells us that you have 7.5sq.m. of surplus wood. We have a wastage allowance blah blah and also you asked for extra blah, so that leaves 1sq.m. - if you bring that back, we'll happily refund you for it, or we can pick it up but then you'd have to pay the courier which won't leave you with any cash.
I went and applied a tape measure to all the loose wood and offcuts, then replied with an email in which I referred the honourable gentleman to the quanitites I handily list above. "Ah", his response (in summary) said. "There seems to be some discrepancy with what Cambridge told me. Bring the lot over, we'll measure it and go from there."
So, with
halaku_remiel's invaluable help, I did just that. The staff at the showroom got a palette, we piled all the wood up on that, and the lady manager totalled up the quantities written on the packs. With the packed amount as a matter of record, and visibly nearly the same volume again of unpacked wood stacked next to it, with offcuts piled on top, I relaxed. Surely we were near agreement! Naturally, I could not expect them to take back the offcuts or the wood we'd explicitly asked for when we first ordered. I decided I would be content merely with having them not triple-count the wastage. Since I would be unable to transport the longer planks without
halaku_remiel's help, we stopped unloading when there were two packs left; I explained that I'd keep that as the extra I ordered, unless that meant there would be a problem with measuring the quantities, in which case I'd take the amount in loose planks instead. The lady manager quickly said there'd be no problem, and recorded the amount - 3.6sq.m; this was rather more than I expected to take back, but, since things otherwise seemed to be in hand, I left it at that. A receipt was promptly handed to me, for "6.5sq.m. of wood delivered, 3.6 presented and taken back, and a quantity of loose and scrap wood" and I was told the manager from Newmarket would come down on Monday or Tuesday, measure the lot, then authorise a refund and call me back.This was Saturday. I already suspected what would happen, but let Monday and Tuesday come and go. Wednesday morning, I telephoned Newmarket. It was the manager's day off, I was told; I should call Thursday.
Thursday morning I actually got through to the manager. He'd heard nothing at all from Cambridge, I was told, but would look into it right away and call me back.
I waited until the afternoon before I telephoned again. "Ah, he's on the phone right now. Actually, he'll be going on holiday tomorrow, so I'll make sure to get him to call you back before the end of the day."
So, the next morning - this morning - I call the office and relate the whole saga from start to finish to the person who answers, without letting them get a word in. "I was planning to call him at 11, sir, I will talk to him then and make sure to resolve this for you. I will call you back after that."
I gave it until end of lunchtime, then telephoned again. "He says he sent you an email yesterday." "I got no email." "I'll get him to telephone."
Around 3pm, I ran out of patience and telephoned the Cambridge showroom. "Ah yes", the lady manager says. "He did talk to me yesterday. There's 6.5 square metres of packed wood here, so after subtracting the wastage allowance I can pay you for 2 square metres of it." "Wastage allowance? What about all the waste wood I brought down to show you the wastage? How does that even start to make sense?" "I'm sorry, sir, but two square metres is all the Newmarket manager authorised me to refund. If you bring back the other wood, I could issue a refund for that as well. If there is a problem, you should speak to the Newmarket manager. He's not available today, though." "I can reach him on the mobile number in his email signature, right?" "He's on holiday today. He'll be back Monday." "Of course he is."
I confess I lost my cool and somewhat rudely hung up without saying goodbye. "Following delivery of close to 19m2 of wood to the Cambridge branch last Saturday", my email to the Newmarket manager began, "and after spending an entire week being passed around between various people and waiting fruitlessly for telephone calls to be returned as promised, it is with some distress that I discover that a refund has only been authorised for a tiny proportion of the wood that is demonstrably surplus." I followed in that vein, detailing once more the totals above and pointing out the wood was right there for anyone to see in the Cambridge showroom, enough of it to do another living room.
I sent the email, but couldn't concentrate on my work. I dug out my legal advisor's number, called them up and explained the situation. "Someone will return your call within the next two hours, sir." I laughed.
An email hit my inbox! It's from the Newmarket manager.
Having inspected the material returned excluding the un-suitable boarding returned (Open & Cut Boards) I totalled an amour of 6.5m2 packed and returned suitable for credit.
4.5m2 of this material is the non-returnable wastage allowance therefore a credit us due in the additional returned 2m2.
As a gesture if you would like to return the further 2m2 you purchased separately I will also credit this back giving a credit of 4m2, at this point I would like to state the returned cut and open boards you returned to store are your properties if you wish to collect please do so by Sunday 13.02.11 or I will arrange disposal of these for you and also as a further gesture there will no restocking charge on either the 2m2 or 4m2 credit.
The lawyer returned the call! I could build a decent case, she explained, under the Consumer and Sale of Goods act, around the fact that I relied on their services to perform the initial survey, and the vast amount of surplus wood is due to their failure to exercise due care and diligence when they did took the measurements. If I wished to pursue it, I should start by retrieving the unwrapped wood and offcuts from the showroom, or at least going there and measuring it all with them so that a written record of the total amount exists. I should then contact my credit card company and tell them I was disputing the charges; and file a formal complaint against Barham.
I feel drained, however. I've had enough; I'm just about ready to wash my hands of the whole affair. Without
halaku_remiel's help, I am unable to move the wood at all as the planks are too long to fit inside a car; and the thought of asking people to help me lug stuff yet again is untenable. A couple of friends have expressed desire to take the wood to floor their own rooms; if it turns out they were serious, and I have a means of transporting it back from Barham's before Barham's dispose of it, I'm very tempted to give them the finger regarding their token "refund", take the lot back and give it to said friends. If it drags on for much longer I'll probably swear at someone.Still. Feels good to get that lot off my chest.
TLDR: They suck at measuring, and at communicating, and when they do communicate they lie. I need to trust contractors less, and give them fewer chances, so I retain enough energy to finish what I start.
Would not trade again.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-02-11 06:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-11 08:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-11 08:31 pm (UTC)I can see why you'd want to just be done with it all now, although I'd also say that if you do as your lawyer has said, then it might discourage the company to take other customers for a ride. Either way though I suspect the company will get whats coming to them in the future, and I hope things smooth out for you too!
no subject
Date: 2011-02-11 10:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-13 12:15 am (UTC)The amount of packed wood left over would have covered our hallway.
The waste and the unpacked planks would have done one of our smaller upstairs bedrooms.
Personally I think the measurement of your room was just wrong. 47 square meters is an absolutely huge area. Your living room is quite large, but I think 47 square meters is like well exaggerated.
I'd guess from looking at it that your room is 6 - 7 meters long and between 3.5 and 4 meters wide. Though thinking about it your room gains a meter or more in width towards the top by the kitchen...
Get your tape measure out mate. That's your best bet. I'd guess your room is actually about 32 sqm based on this guess. (http://wrh.homeip.net/images/morags.jpg)
So whoever measured it either did it deliberately or was plain stupid. An allowance of 10% of that is 3.2 sqm which makes a grand total of 35.2 sqm.
This is assuming my guess is anything like right....
Just as a rule most floor layers, carpet fitters etc expect the work area to be clear and empty. They love coming to our house because our rooms are bare when they come they can get in and get out fast. An easy £40 for them.
Fitters also leave their junk behind, you're also expected to clear up after them.
I think you should give them some feedback where it's due about their measurements, their business practices seem somewhat unscrupulous if they make a habit of overselling their stuff. :/